Banter 63 - Marx's 'Estranged Labour'

 

The next Banter will be on Saturday, April 24th at 10:30 a.m.

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Why did Karl Marx Hate the Earl Grey?

Because all proper tea is theft.

Homework: Please read the following document:

Marx's Estranged Labour (link) 

Heavy, right? The reading was the easy part but it will, likely, require a little additional study and pondering to be prepared to banter it about.

There is a lot of additional material on this topic, online, that may be beneficial for prepping. Search terms like ’Marx’s theory of alienation’ and ‘Entfremdung’ may be helpful. You can also click on the ’table of contents’ in the link, above, to see this topic in the context of other other Marx manuscripts (but, please, don’t feel like you have to digest the entirety of those 19th century sources). Look for more modern sources and personal connections, or disagreements with, Marx’s philosophy of alienation.

As always the banter is an opportunity to pull on various threads and chase rabbits, so follow your muse. That said, Marxism would be way too huge and generalized of a topic to tackle in its entirety. The main focus of this banter is less on broad Marxist economics and more,  specifically, on this social philosophy of the ‘estrangement’ of the working class from their true human nature. 

Here are some questions (that I stole from a YouTube video) that may be helpful in getting the creative juices flowing:

Have you had work experiences where you felt alienated from the product or the process?

What are types of work, in modern society, that demonstrate alienation per Marx's definition?

How does not experiencing our 'species essence' impact society?

There is no requirement to submit your thoughts or any additional videos/reading but, if you find something interesting or helpful, feel free to submit that material to Mitch, via email, by April 18th and I will post it here.

Banter 62 - Lecture: Childhood Trauma, Affect Regulation and Borderline Personality Disorder

Saturday, March 27th at 1030 MDT. 

Note: The United States will be in Daylight Savings. For those in other countries, or areas that don't go to DST, please check for any time differences since the last banter.

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The lecture we will watch is Bessel van der Kolk, MD, discussing ‘Childhood Trauma, Affect Regulation and Borderline Personality Disorder’.

There is no material to submit or any prep work prio to this March banter. 

We will be watching the lecture component (without the Q&A) at 1.25 speed. That will take about 40 minutes. 

There is no need to watch the video in advance but, so you know, the topic contains some jargon and acronyms, the lecturer has a Dutch accent and we will be viewing it at a higher speed over conference audio. If, for these reasons, you feel like you would get more out of it by watching it earlier and, again, at the banter, feel free to pre-watch. 

See you in the Spring!

 

Banter 61: Can new thinking patterns be acquired (ex. positivism) or are our brains locked in by brain chemistry/genetics/neural paths?

Banter 61 will be conducted by Zoom on Saturday, February 27th at 1030 MST.

Link to meeting (click here) 
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Pass: Banter61

_____________________________

FROM ISAAC:

Below is an OED definition of positivism (in a Google Search):

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=tablet-android-samsung-rev2&source=android-browser&q=positivism

This guy might be more of an interesting case study than a wise philosopher, but I basically agree with him:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5EOj2Z7hw5w

How Toxic Positivity Leads to More Suffering | Mahmoud Khedr | TEDxMenloCollege

youtube.com

_________________________________________

FROM CHRIS H.: 

Writing this reminds me just how much I am not a writer, it seems so difficult to put words down and have them mean what you want them to. I guess it’s best not to want any control over meaning. 

The answer to the discussion topic I think is no. I am currently tired of being in the human species when I see how we humans around the world just keep being horrible to each other and to the earth. Nothing seems to change.

I could lean the other way though...yes, we do change.   We are very adaptable with our large brains and can learn new tricks.  Our thoughts evolve and we see things in new ways as we grow and mature.  In a sense, every time our mood changes dramatically we think differently. When you fell in love thoughts were bright, driven by joy and appreciation.   when you were in bad mood or felt slighted thought patterns turn towards negativity. 

And bright people work hard on changing toward betterment (Banter people for example.). Is that part of their permanent thought pattern? Research in neuroscience has shown that brain cells can change into different tasks. How interesting that a few people who developed blindness have learned echo location, making clicking noises. When studying those peoples’ brains with MRI they find that the occipital (visual cortex) lobe  is what’s busy reading objects and direction from sound.  This shows there is nothing intrinsic about a visual cortex neuron versus a pain sensing neuron versus a motor neuron. e.And people who study very hard day after day find new ways of thinking I believe. But it takes effort, repetition, and some kind of reward.reward seems important.  

Really, I could go either way on this. We are all marvelous and we are all not marvelous.

_________________________________________________

FROM SABINE:

When I face my most entrenched neural pathways (often when I am stressed, too busy, or overstrained to do anything but be entrenched), or when I face the most regularly traveled neural pathways of my mother or a relationship/friendship I’m frustrated by, I will give one answer to this question.  “No, our default settings and cognitive distortions will always rear up, take over again, and keep our dynamics somewhat fixed with others,” I might say. 

But if I am outside walking on the sides of mountains a lot in calm, breath-aware manner, or reading poetry every day for a string of days (i.e. life is such that I am calm enough to be valuing reading poetry every day), or engaging in mindfulness/meditation/yoga that isn’t reserved for the mat but oozes out onto the rest of my day (I have accomplished this a few periods of life, though not presently), then I give wholly another answer to this question in a softer, softly amused voice.  Something like this I might say then, “There are nearly infinite moments in the day stretching before me right now where I can opt to notice a lot of different things.  Can I notice only my cognitive distortions or discomforts? Of course, some days that’s what I decide to do with my day, and it feels crummy.  But, some days, I remember that I’m not locked into noticing only one set of things about myself or life, and those days, those moments anyhow, I tend to see in a much wider range of colors and sensations. Even my own suffering looks different when I recall I don’t have to view it only from one vantage point. It’s hard to remember this sometimes, very hard, but there are things one can do to make it easier to remember.”

I’ve always loved, at the beginning of a yoga class, to walk my students through noticing what their body is feeling (different sensations and where, pleasant and achy/sore/tense, how the breath feels moving the body, posture, weight, temperature), then refocusing to what their mind is doing (still, busy, over-efforting, quiet, listing, anticipating/predicting, sleepy, etc. until they can start to see the thoughts as if clouds floating across a sky), and then refocusing on how the emotional body/mind is (easy, peaceful, strained, sad, agitated, tired, a zinging nervous system, and so on).  I think the more we don’t see our thoughts (or emotions) as synonymous with our entire being/body/self or state of existence, the more we can relegate the thoughts to being like clouds across a sky, not more important or loud than a foot that feels sore, or an eyebrow that feels very mellow and with no problems at all. 

Therapy around recognising and then pushing back against cognitive distortions (including via Thought Records) can be okay for this changing/rewiring the mind in similar ways, but I think it is less effective (for me) as compared to straight up Buddhist (Pema Chodron) or MBSR (Jon Kabat Zinn) mindfulness practice, a life steeped in poetry, cultivating a wonder-filled child-mind, being actively nature-saturated, having a daily exercise-enriched life.  These practices change my attitude, mindset, neural pathways I have access to, chemistry, level of belief in my thoughts, perceptions of what matters and what isn’t going to be helpful within my own body, and so on, much more than an hour of therapy a week, even years of it.

These three resources might slightly support further what I’m getting at about this:

1. Jon Kabat-Zinn on mindfulness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcVmRUm3ok8 
2.  List of 15 common cognitive distortions
   
   
   (You can find this image & more details here: https://positivepsychology.com/cbt-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-techniques-worksheets/)
3. Thought record, blank (consider filling in once): 
   

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FROM PAM:

Here are a few prompts for conversation: 

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/soil-fertilizers/antidepressant-microbes-soil.htm

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/296779

https://www.neurologylive.com/view/neurobiology-forgiveness

________________________________________

FROM JARED:

I will admit my own ignorance on this topic because I do not see how positivism relates to changes in neural pathways. Perhaps if I better understood the origin of this topic, I would understand better.

At the risk—nay as proof—of my ignorance, I am sending a few thoughts. 

Some psychologists call Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) the most effective method for treating “depression, anxiety disorders, alcohol and drug use problems, marital problems, eating disorders and severe mental illness.” https://www.apa.org/ptsd-guideline/patients-and-families/cognitive-behavioral. As that website explains, “CBT treatment usually involves efforts to change thinking patterns.” Twelve-step groups would relate it to the “tapes” that play in people’s heads. As I understand CBT, individuals learn thought patterns from our parents and friends when we are young, and some cognitive distortions spring to mind in related situations. 

Often, those cognitive distortions take the form of “all-or-nothing” statements that undermine self-esteem. This website provides an example of all-or-nothing thinking in an interview in which the interviewee did not answer one question correctly. https://cogbtherapy.com/cbt-blog/cognitive-distortions-all-or-nothing-thinking. It proposed the subject could conceive of an all-or-nothing thought that “the interview went terribly.” Just as easily, the subject could stretch that into “I screw up every interview,” or “I never answer tough questions correctly,” or "Whenever something good is about to happen, I screw it up." None of those statements reflects the breadth of reality. 

I see logical flaws in these thoughts. Logisticians would call those statements fallacies of hasty generalization: taking one example and extrapolating to a general principle. The psychological impacts arise from the general principle the thoughts establish: a feeling of worthiness or unworthiness. CBT helps people learn those logical fallacies in their own thoughts, and people can use those skills to combat the cognitive distortions toward a view that better approximates reality. 

Separately, mindfulness can change thought patterns. Scientists call those potential changes neuroplasticity. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeenacho/2016/12/27/the-science-behind-how-mindfulness-helps-you-to-break-negative-thought-patterns/?sh=4ef7066f4119. This article describes several changes in thought patterns that mindfulness can create. https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn3916

I met one woman who convincingly described the difference between the light side and the dark side of the Force as mindfulness. 

 http://brainknowsbetter.com/news/2014/10/22/mindfulness-is-the-essential-psychology-of-the-star-wars-universe 

Letting feelings of hate, anger, frustration, and disappointment control the individual leads an individual to the dark side. Letting those feelings wash over leads to the light side. 

Banter 60: Talk Amongst Your Selves - consulting with your past and future incarnations

Our 60th Banter topic is about 'checking in' with your younger past self and/or your older future self when evaluating your life paths and choices.

Did you make commitments to your older self or promises to your younger self? Do you ponder what your older or younger self would think of you now? If not, why not? If you truly could talk to your older or younger self, would you even understand one-another? Which direction would any advice flow...forward or backward in time, or both? 

The intent of this topic is not so much to discuss your personal life goals and regrets (though you can), but more to look into philosophical, psychological, scientific, spiritual literature on this topic for broader discussion. As one of the few (only?) earthbound creatures aware of our own mortality, are we the only species that hold these internal dialogues with ourselves in different life phases? Are there other cultures, spiritual beliefs, or times in our human past where this concept would seem ludicrous (ex. those who believe in reincarnation, that do not see time as linear, are strict causal determinists, or whom, simply, don't have the luxury of such rumination because of a need to just, simply, survive each day). For those that do seek advice or wish to please their older and younger incarnations, is there value in doing so at all, or is this a 'Ship of Theseus' problem where you really are no long the old you anymore?

As a primer to get the thoughts flowing here is a three and a half minute, humorous video on of a 32 year old interviewing himself at 12.  It has 32 million views so you may have seen it. If so, or you need more inspiration, this is a one minute NPR story that references a similar self interview video.

Sabine’s contribution:

When it comes to selves and reconciling my different selves, or talking amongst them, or taking inspiration or scolding from them, what writers do in each sentence comes to mind, especially creative nonfiction writers, dealing in autobiography and classical essay form (Phillip Lopate, Virginia Woolf, Hazlitt).  I think these resources might explain what I mean. I think, being a writer, I see my selves in this way too - there are a lot of them to converse with just to get one sentence down accurately about how I really felt/feel about any of the more impactful experiences or lovely moments in my life: 

“When you’re writing an essay, you as the essayist are both moving forward and circling back to what you said and arguing with yourself, or at least asking yourself if this is what you really think. That’s part of the scrupulousness of this kind of writing. It’s not, is this what others think I should think? but, is this what I actually think?” - Phillip Lopate 

Phillip Lopate is now an older writer in New York (very interested in his younger selves & current self), and was a professor of mine at Bennington.
Listen to 1:10 to 1:39 in particular from Lopate on a key concept he takes on in his essays all the time and in essay writing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaNQgMhKTi4

Then read/listen to one or the other of these (one a written interview and the other an audio recorded interview with Phillip Lopate on a conversation with his present self, former self, and his mother, relating to one of his more recent books): 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyshF-_TVI0
https://lithub.com/phillip-lopate-revisits-a-30-year-old-conversation-with-his-mother/

And, last (sorry to be hoggish with space), but thinking about and reading Frost’s poem “The Road Not Taken” also seems quite important to bring up when we are thinking about our young self and our current self facing each other from either vantage point (looking ahead to the unknown older self, or looking back at the known younger self).  Either of them might have a tendency to not tell all the truth, to be disappointed, to want something one or the other couldn’t give.  Frost reading it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie2Mspukx14 

And, a quick overview of how it is often misinterpreted/misread, being Frost’s “tricky poem": https://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/555959/robert-frost-road-not-taken/

We can’t be all the things nor walk down all the paths, as Lopate said above in the 1:10-1:39 and in his own “The Roads Not Taken” in The American Scholar.  My own insistence on that has exhausted me by my mid-40s but I think (hope) I have taken enough roads now to satisfy both my younger and upcoming, yet-older self. I could use a rest to simply assimilate now all of my aspects of selves and experiences in situ with a pen in hand on Columbia Avenue, where banters began.  How smart we were then to think of banter nights, and what joy and camaraderie we’ve brought to our subsequent selves. That first banter has made all the difference to this 60th banter night. 

Banter 59: Healing Divides: How did the German People Heal their National Culture after the World Wars

Date and Time: Sunday, December 20th at 1100 MST

Location: Zoom Meeting. Mitch sent meeting info by email on 11/25/2020.

Please email materials to Mitch by 12/11 so he can post them to this blog.

This should be an interesting topic, especially with two members of our banter group residing in Germany. It is timely, as well. At the risk of over-dramatically comparing the ravages of post-war Germany to the U.S. today, there may be some parallels and lessons that could be learned about bringing a divided nation together (before war starts and reconstruction is needed).

The focus of this topic isn't so much about rebuilding cities from rubble, the Marshall Plan, the way that Germany was divided by the Allied Nations or, even, the disease, hunger, and economic issues that the German people suffered. Nor is the topic about pre-war Germany and how Hitler could have risen to power with the support of such a large portion of the German populace. Those concepts may weave into the discussion, to some extent, but, as I understand it, the intent is to look for materials on, research, and discuss how Germany, more or less, succeed in a post-war societal and cultural reconstruction.

How did the German people come together and build a nation with a new community, a new culture and new socio-political beliefs after the war? When and how did those that supported the Nazi Party come around to recognize that they were the 'baddies'? How did those that made the switch more quickly deal with the underground Nazi resistance?  What was the guilt like for those that always opposed the war but were afraid to speak up? Most importantly, what was it like for German family, friends, and neighbors, all in different stages of grief, acceptance and denial, with different opinions on the future of the nation, when they gathered around the post-war dinner table? 

From Kirk B.

 

The German recovery from the Nazi period is a very interesting topic and has to be looked at from many angles, especially the differences between East and West Germany.  As I understand it, Neo-nazi groups are re-emerging in the East where the economy is weak, but not so much in the West where the economy is much stronger.

When we had the baby boom Germany had the opposite.  It was predicted that this would lead to an economic collapse.  The opposite happened proving the economic experts were wrong.  Expensive labor was an asset, because it forced Germany and Japan to be more efficient. 

From Sabine

 

Leave it to the German language to give us a single word to summarize this complicated topic: Vergangenheitsbewältigung.

It is the German term for efforts to deal publicly with the Nazi past.

Sabine recommends reading Wikipedia's overview on the word here (link).

 Here are some more materials from Sabine:

A 23 minute video: Mr. Rogers and the Power of Persuasion (link)

 

A 15 page article on Vergangenheitsbewältigung (link) as revealed by German literature in Boston’s great literary journal, AGNI.

 

A 20-ish page article about Vergangenheitsbewältigung (link) as it applies to the United State's problematic history that it won't face with race etc.

Note: The links to the two papers, above, will take you to a webpage where you can read them in your browser or, if you prefer, look for the download icon in the upper right where you can save it to your computer as a .pdf document.

 

From Isaac:

 

I'm thinking the aftermath of world war one might be a somewhat more relevant time period? And the questions posed at the end are exactly addressed by Sabine's mr. Rogers video:

 https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2020/12/06/exp-gps-1206-macmillan-on-political-lies.cnn

 

Also pre-World War II, but I'm really interested especially in hearing what our current residents of Germany think of this. And again, it seems awfully relevant to the question of how to deal with the present moment

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/copenhagen-speech-violence

 

I mean, I'm interested in what everyone thinks about it, and I'm especially curious what residents of Germany have heard relevant to this while living there.

From Mitch:

 

I'm going to take publisher's privilege here and post a silly placeholder, for now. After I've had a chance to read Sabine's posts and do some research I may find something to post with some more depth. In the meantime, I am submitting a short segment from the BBC's 'That Mitchell and Webb Show'. It is quite well known so, I'd imagine, that many have already seen it....just the first thing that came to mind when the topic was proposed. Here is the less than three minute comedy sketch (link) of Nazi's having a sudden battlefield epiphany. I'd imagine that the civilian German population went through a similar (albeit, slower) realization in the days and weeks after V-E Day.

Banter 58: What does it even mean to be a human?

Sunday, June 28th at 4pm
at Chris' deck (outside only) and via Zoom for those who can't or don't wish to join in person

Back in 2010 our very first banter topic was "What does it even mean to be a human?" Some of us went in the direction of animal vs. human definitions such as: "What are the complications and/or benefits of personifying animals or anthropomorphizing them?  How do you splice the divide between human rights and animal rights?  What are the historical complications (ie, Animals of the Third Reich excerpt) of leveling out human and animal rights if we bring humans down to animals?  Can we bring animals up to humans, why would we?  Why does the definition of what a human is often go scientific or push off of animals, yet not get too intricately into emotional, philosophical approaches to this definition?  Is it even possible to create a definition for a human that is meaningful, comprehensive, and artful?"

I'm curious to see where our 2020 group discussion takes us with this vague question.  We can do a combo of winging it (since most of us haven't come up with materials & since most of us will be out recreating all weekend and not doing much prep work) and diving into the below from those who gave us some direction: 
   
Nia's contribution (not to be confused with Naya):

The group might find this podcast episode interesting, an interview with a woman with autism and ADHD who wrote a book to explain being human to people like her, a kind of manual that she said she would have liked to have growing up: https://futurespodcast.net/episodes/16-drcamillapang

There are a number of podcast episodes from that podcaster that deal with transhumanism, AI, cyborgs, and the future versions of what being human might look like. 

Isaac's contributions:

“Man need not be degraded to a machine by being denied to be a ghost in a machine. He might, after all, be a sort of animal, namely, a higher mammal. There has yet to be ventured the hazardous leap to the hypothesis that perhaps he is a man.” ― Gilbert Ryle, The Concept of Mind

Jared P.'s contribution: 

In 2019, Congress passed a law prohibiting movies of animal torture and cruelty. https://www.peta.org/blog/pact-act-signed-into-law/

A federal law against animal torture demonstrates an evolving moral sensitivity to the suffering of non-humans. It recognizes a broader sympathy and understanding of suffering that may seek to diminish that suffering--even as life cannot exist without some suffering. Suffering can impel us to act when nothing else can. Here, however, even Congress recognized that some suffering can have no benefit to the life that is suffering. Perhaps humanity's morality is expanding with our abilities to fill our needs without causing that unnecessary suffering, so we have the luxury of stopping some unnecessary suffering. Or perhaps we are seeing more in common with animals than we see in the cold universe outside. Or perhaps this reflects the long arc of history moving closer to justice. 

Sabine's contributions:

Some definitions across eras and fields: https://www.brainpickings.org/2011/12/09/what-it-means-to-be-human-joanna-bourke/

A journalistic piece that my friend Ben Polley wrote a few years ago, and that I helped him edit.  This reminds me of how often our definitions of how we differ from animals (tools, language, property/territory, art/culture) have little to do with what is and mostly to do with what we humancentric creatures don't notice of the other creatures: https://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/articles/entry/the_real_twitter_feed_that_we_have_lost_track_of/